Liar, Liar

If the board disappeared from view for an hour, it is just because we changed our provider of domain name services. Look for the all-new eye95.com, coming soon. This board will become a subfeature of that site.

We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration will allow you to join in the discussion which is amazingly free of personal rancor and trolls!

We are currently looking for posters from both the left and the right who have a demonstrated capacity to discuss fervently without letting personalities get in the way. Is that you? We need more staff.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Liar, Liar; Pants on fire!
Topic Started: Jul 5 2008, 07:34 AM (661 Views)
Post #1 Jul 5 2008, 07:34 AM	eye95
A major part of the loss of civility in discourse comes from the propensity of late to replace, "I disagree with you, and want to encourage others to disagree with you and agree with me," with the more stark, "You're a liar." Bemoaning that untoward trend does not mean that I am saying there are no lies being told and no inveterate liars derailing useful discussion. There most certainly are (most notably--and ironically--when one makes the "liar" charge, knowing full well that the charge is patently false!). To help in the identification of lies and liars, let me reiterate the criteria I use before labeling a statement as a "lie." 1. The statement must be false. This criterion is the most necessary, but is decidedly not the only criterion. My point is that the other two are just as key. 2. The person making the statement must know it is false. Mistakes are not lies. If someone is mistaken, feel free to criticize his error. After all, we have a responsibility to check our "facts" before passing them on. Passing on falsities that one has not vetted properly does not make one a liar, just careless. 3. The false statement must be made to benefit the maker. The morality of jokes, white lies, and the like is at least questionable, but the moniker "liar" should be reserved for those whose primary motivation for habitual deception is self. Unfortunately, we tend to get "news" these days from entertainers, some of whom have no compunction against being deceptive and who hold others (only those with whom they disagree) to a non-liar standard that is both ridiculous and unmeetable. Politicos eagerly eat this stuff up and then joyfully regurgitate it into the waiting beaks of followers in desperate need of validation. I make this post with two motivations: (1) I beg you to use the words "lie" and "liar" only after due consideration. And (2), when you hear someone bandy those words about, apply the above criteria to the purported "lies" and call the accuser on it when he plays fast and loose with that language. I fear that the most often told lie these days is the accusation of lying!	Administrator Posts: 2,647 Group: Editor-in-Chief Member #1 Joined: December 11, 2005



Post #2 Aug 8 2008, 09:16 PM	eye95
Case in point. Senator Edwards, most assuredly, lied. In keeping with the propensity lamented above, Edwards' lie was in calling others liars. In response to the story of his affair with a campaign worker, here is some of what he had to say: Senator Edwards The story is false. It's completely untrue, ridiculous. Senator Edwards I've been in love with the same woman for 30-plus years and as anybody who's been around us knows, she's an extraordinary human being, warm, loving, beautiful, sexy and as good a person as I have ever known. So the story's just false. He has now admitted that the essence of the story--that he had an affair--is true. Senator Edwards In 2006, I made a serious error in judgment and conducted myself in a way that was disloyal to my family and to my core beliefs. I recognized my mistake, and I told my wife that I had a liaison with another woman, and I asked for her forgiveness. Although I was honest in every painful detail with my family, I did not tell the public. We can now conclude that (1) Edwards made a false statement in saying that "[t]he story is false," that "[ i]t's completely untrue..." Furthermore, (2) He knew his statement was false. How could he not know? Finally, (3) he made the false statement for personal gain. He was involved in a campaign for the presidency, one that would've been undermined by the revelation of the affair. This is a case in point where it is reasonable to say that someone lied. Senator Edwards lied.	Administrator Posts: 2,647 Group: Editor-in-Chief Member #1 Joined: December 11, 2005



Post #3 Oct 12 2008, 09:23 AM	CT-95
If politicians would practice the refrain "my marraige is none of your business", perhaps the media would actually cover their politics.	Civil Servant Posts: 556 Group: Editor Member #34 Joined: March 25, 2006



1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)


« Previous Topic · What is civility? · Next Topic »