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Another green mandate that just doesn't work; First toilets, now bulbs
Topic Started: Dec 22 2007, 11:30 AM (504 Views)
Post #21 Dec 26 2007, 12:39 PM eye95
BadRabbit
Dec 26 2007, 09:24 AM
BTW - I was joking about installing vacuum assisted toilets everywhere. They work great in prison setting because the inmates love to flush stuff like bedsheets and contraband down the toilet. The vacuum assisted toilets are strong enough that this doesn't back the toilet up. The stuff goes to a tank and can be recovered if need me (contraband, for example). Vacuum assisted toilets use little water but would not be a good application for residential use for the reasons you stated (maintenance, cost, etc).

Again, though, this illustrates how mandates either cost us money or capability, usually without affording us the freedom to make a choice as to the level of capability we want and the cost we are willing to put up with.

Work the cost to society of damage to the environment (and the cost to move and reprocess the waste) of the products purchased (including water). People will naturally conserve wisely.
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Post #22 Dec 27 2007, 09:01 AM BadRabbit
Here's the light fixture we have here at work.

http://www.ledalite.com/technology/ergolight/overview
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Post #23 Dec 27 2007, 09:10 AM eye95
And how much would it cost to replace the light in my study. Let's calculate the original cost: Fixture, $70, Dimmer Switch: $5, and Bulb $3. That's $78. How much does your dimmable set-up cost?

The fact remains that a standard CFB cannot be put on a dimmer switch. Either the installation has to be upgraded or the dimmer capability is lost. This is so typically ignored by greens: stupid solutions that either cost more or do less. They will constantly point out how you can do what you used to and the you can pay less. They never admit that you can't do both!
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Post #24 Dec 27 2007, 09:36 AM BadRabbit
Apples and oranges. I'm not claiming that CFLs can be attached to a dimmer switch. I introduced the example of my light at work to show that many flourescent light bulbs can be controlled by a dimmer switch. The light in my cube is not intended to replace a CFL or a standard incandescent.
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Post #25 Dec 27 2007, 09:44 AM eye95
BadRabbit
Dec 27 2007, 08:36 AM
Apples and oranges. I'm not claiming that CFLs can be attached to a dimmer switch. I introduced the example of my light at work to show that many flourescent light bulbs can be controlled by a dimmer switch. The light in my cube is not intended to replace a CFL or a standard incandescent.

You first posted about your dimmable light in direct response to my lament that CFBs were not dimmable.

It is natural then for me to point out that CFBs are indeed NOT dimmable and that a dimmable installation, such as yours, would be a silly solution at home, lest some reader be left with the impression, as a result of your post following mine, that CFBs are dimmable or that there is some reasonable solution that they are not.

I shouldn't have to explain why I kept a thread on point when a distraction seems to attempt to refute a point I made.
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Post #26 Dec 27 2007, 10:15 AM BadRabbit
Check out #3...

http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/faqs/cfl.htm
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Post #27 Dec 27 2007, 06:16 PM Goofball
eye95
Dec 24 2007, 02:41 PM
What about all these incandescent bulbs for which there are no CFB replacements:  flashlight bulbs, chandelier bulbs, Christmas lights?  Do we have to toss the appliance that we plug them into and buy new?

We have fluorescent bulbs in our chandelier. The only problem is they have to "warm up" before they give off full light. And then they aren't as bright as we'd like them. We probably just bought the wrong wattage. But we're practically eating by candlelight our dining room is so dim.

We even have fluorescents in our kitchen - sort of like flood lights inset into the ceiling. They also have to warm up before full brightness - but it sure saves on our electric bill. We have enough stuff running 24/7 - frig, computers, freezer - it's nice to save some money somewhere.

And they sure beat halogens that not only cost a lot to run, but also put out heat.
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Post #28 Dec 27 2007, 08:32 PM eye95
BadRabbit
Dec 27 2007, 09:15 AM

"Specially made" = "more expensive."

Again, one more time, in case someone missed it, another time around, here we go again...

Mandates mean less capability and/or increased cost.
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Post #29 Dec 27 2007, 08:37 PM eye95
Goofball
Dec 27 2007, 05:16 PM
We have fluorescent bulbs in our chandelier. The only problem is they have to "warm up" before they give off full light. And then they aren't as bright as we'd like them. We probably just bought the wrong wattage. But we're practically eating by candlelight our dining room is so dim.

We even have fluorescents in our kitchen - sort of like flood lights inset into the ceiling. They also have to warm up before full brightness - but it sure saves on our electric bill. We have enough stuff running 24/7 - frig, computers, freezer - it's nice to save some money somewhere.

And they sure beat halogens that not only cost a lot to run, but also put out heat.

By "chandelier bulbs," I meant the ones with the small threads. If they are available, they aren't available here.

The point is that people (including me) are switching anyway. In most cases, CFBs just plain make more sense. What doesn't make sense is forcing people to make the switch, even in cases where it would be stupid to do so.
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Post #30 Dec 27 2007, 10:38 PM Goofball
Our bulbs have the narrow base threads. We got them at Home Depot.

I agree, forcing people doesn't make sense. But I switched due to costs as did my hubby before we met each other. Now, we put them where we live and take them when we go. Too expensive to leave behind.
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Post #31 Dec 22 2008, 07:59 PM eye95
We have never had a CFB "blow" before, and two blew today.

Maybe that's because they were on timer switches for about a week while we were away. It seems that another drawback of the CFB mandate is that they shouldn't be used on circuits controlled by a timer. Who knew?

Anyway, that raised the issue of disposal. We can't expect ordinary consumers to go to far out of their way (or to spend too much money) to properly dispose of mercury-containing CFBs. So, I searched the web for a reasonable and proper way to dispose of them. After an hour, the only solutions I had found (even going through Alabama's official environmental management) including driving out of state, buying a recycle kit that will recycle 30 bulbs for about $120, or collecting thousands of these bulbs and following state mandates for proper disposal of hazardous waste.

Don't you think that, if the government is going to mandate these bulbs, then they should provide an easy way for households to dispose of them?

I kept looking. Finally, I discovered that the local Home Depot will recycle them for me. So, I'll just fill the box they came in and take them with me the next time I shop there. This might just actually motivate me to shop there instead of Lowes the next time I need stuff. Kudos to Home Depot.

P.S. In my search, I also found a place for recycling single-use batteries. We have been avoiding throwing them in the trash for a couple of years now and have quite a collection. I'll get rid of them this week. Look for places to recycle single-use batteries in your town and you won't have to throw them out.
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