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| Corporal punishment in schools; New Thread | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 24 2007, 05:43 AM (1,526 Views) | |
| Post #41 Sep 27 2007, 05:46 AM |
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I'm not saying I believe parents spank their children to garner their child's respect. In my opinion, a child will fear those that hit them (even for disciplinary reasons) and a child will respect those that use a non-violent method to resolve conflict. If Junior gets angry and hits another student in class, I believe it is hypocritical for a parent to say, "Junior, it was wrong for you to hit Bobby because he took your toy car. As your punishment, I'm going to hit you." |
Civilian
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| Post #42 Sep 27 2007, 08:57 AM |
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Is it hypocritical for a police officer who shoots a criminal to arrest me for doing the same? No, of course not. Because it is in his realm of role and responsibility to do that very thing, and it is not my role nor responsibility and I should be arrested for vigilante violence. Same idea. It is my role as parent to rightly administer discipline to my children. It is not the child's role to do that to another child. Just as it is not my role to seek revenge against those that wrong me, but to wait for the Lord, who says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." |
Civilian
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| Post #43 Sep 27 2007, 09:35 AM |
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| Apples and oranges. A cop shooting at a criminal should only be in self-defense or for the defense of others. Teaching a child a lesson is far from being the same as preserving your own life. Apples and oranges. |
Civilian
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| Post #44 Sep 27 2007, 09:54 AM |
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It's not apples and oranges. You are focusing on the wrong aspect of the analogy. It's not that acts that are important, but the ROLES. I was not equating a 1:1 relationship between a shooting and a fight between children, that would be ridiculous. |
Civilian
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| Post #45 Sep 27 2007, 10:06 AM |
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| Of course the acts are important. The act is what is prompting the spanking in the first place. It's a poor analogy IMHO. |
Civilian
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| Post #46 Sep 27 2007, 12:03 PM |
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I'm with Bad Rabbit on this aspect of his opinion. While I loved my parents and I know they loved me, (and that took a long trime to conclude) I know I made all decisions out of fear. My every action lived under a cloud of fear of being hit or - way worse yet - being the cause of getting someone else hit. Once a child is old enough to reason. Reason should be used rather than fear of physical harm. Conflict resolution, appropriate decision making etc are crucial life skills that are not taught with a paddle. |
Civil Servant
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| Post #47 Sep 27 2007, 12:34 PM |
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Whatever. Every analogy breaks down at some point - that's the point of an analogy. It's not exactly the same... Regardless of whether a police man is shooting in self defense (which is not always the case, they often have to shoot a criminal who is running away) or not, neither situation gives me the right to do what a policeman does - I am not a policeman. A child does not have the right to 'discipline' another child for a perceived wrong, no matter the circumstances. It is not the role of that child to do that. They need to learn those roles just as well as they need to learn to share and not hit other children. And keep in mind that corporal punishment is not for all children, and certainly not for all ages. I agree with CT, that when a child has gained the ability to reason, that corporal punishment should by and large be abandoned, perhaps with the exception of severe defiance and rebellion - but even then only to a certain age or maturity level. You can't go beating a 12 year old with a 'paddle' and expect it to have any kind of beneficial results. It will simply exasperate the child and cause them to go into further rebellion. |
Civilian
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| Post #48 Sep 27 2007, 05:58 PM |
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Again, you are equating spanking with hitting in anger. Hitting in anger is not spanking. It is abuse. I spanked my kids (not much; once they learned that I had high expectations of them and was going to enforce those expectations, they generally strove to meet them, making other forms of punishment effective.) Do my kids fear me? I doubt it, but you can ask them yourself. Their screen names are Paks and O'Malley. It is not hypocritical in the least to require your kids to not hit a peer in anger simply because, as a parent, one spanks his children (not his peers) not in anger. I think that distinction is obvious--even to kids. BTW, you won't ever read a post of mine that says parents who don't ever spank end up raising kids who don't mind. So, please stop making generalizations the other way. |
Administrator
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| Post #49 Sep 27 2007, 06:00 PM |
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Apples and apples. Both instances (police and parents) are both people with authority over others. The kid in school is a peer, not an authority figure. |
Administrator
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| Post #50 Sep 27 2007, 06:28 PM |
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I feared Dad,too. But, that was abuse, not corporal punishment. Hitting out of anger, brutal beatings with closed fists, chasing with hammers, and threatening with knives will cause fear. (I sometimes slept with a baseball bat handy.) But, none of that was discipline. It was more in the line of revenge for the kid having caused a problem. |
Administrator
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| Post #51 Sep 28 2007, 05:44 AM |
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That's not my intent. I'm asserting my belief that kids will be more prone to fear their parents and less prone to trust their parents if they are spanked. I don't care if you're happy when you're spanking your child. That's what I believe. As I said earlier, it's all on a continuum. Will a couple spanks cause your child to be an axe murderer or crawl up in a fetal position when their parent gets angry with them? No. Spanking may "work" but I still think it is wrong no matter who you are. |
Civilian
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| Post #52 Sep 28 2007, 05:47 AM |
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I'm not stating that spanking doesn't "work". I'm stating I believe spanking is wrong. |
Civilian
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| Post #53 Sep 28 2007, 05:51 AM |
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| Why does the mental state of the parent matter? Hitting is hitting. Hitting is wrong. |
Civilian
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| Post #54 Sep 28 2007, 10:52 AM |
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| Hitting a child in anger is different than calmly spanking a child for discipline purposes. |
Civil Servant
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| Post #55 Sep 28 2007, 11:20 AM |
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| I agree that they are different. They're both wrong IMHO. |
Civilian
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| Post #56 Sep 28 2007, 11:27 AM |
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| I know that I fear hitting in general. Maybe it is because spanking was coupled with an abusive household, maybe not, but, I prefer that society is leaning toward finding less physically painful ways of disciplining chilidren. |
Civil Servant
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| Post #57 Sep 28 2007, 05:50 PM |
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That may not be your intent. There is no way of knowing. However it is what you are doing:
It is not hypocritical unless there is some comparison. Therefore, you are clearly equating hitting in anger with hitting for discipline |
Administrator
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| Post #58 Sep 28 2007, 05:58 PM |
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That statement is pointless unless someone is saying that you are stating such. I see no such contention anywhere. Certainly I never said so, nor have I even implied. So, please do not play that game here. Anyway, my point, stated more directly, is that I am not making generalizations (neither is anyone else that I can see) about parents who do not spank, so please stop making generalizations about those who do. Thank you. |
Administrator
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| Post #59 Sep 28 2007, 06:06 PM |
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Absolutes like that don't help further an argument. They are too easily refuted. Hitting is not always wrong. The easiest way to defuse that absolute is to point out that hitting someone to stop him from shooting someone else is not only not wrong; it is decidedly right! Yes, I know there is no comparison between that and spanking a child, or between that and one child hitting another in anger. That is not the point of this post. The point is that your absolute, because it is an absolute, is false. Therefore, having established that hitting is not always wrong, the question that remains is where to draw the line. You and I draw the line in different places, but we both indeed draw a line where hitting is OK. So, a useful argument posits that there is a line and tries to establish where it is. It doesn't say that there is no line. |
Administrator
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| Post #60 Sep 28 2007, 06:11 PM |
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It matters because you keep comparing spanking to a child hitting another child in anger. Those of us who advocate spanking all agree that hitting a child in anger is wrong. We are not advocating that, just reasoned, purposeful, and loving spanking of young children when other forms of discipline may not be effective, but spanking will. |
Administrator
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