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| Whattashame | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 16 2007, 08:48 AM (741 Views) | |
| Post #1 Sep 16 2007, 08:48 AM |
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It should have been surprising, but it wasn't. I see this behavior all the time at school. Yet, seeing it in real life, with real consequences, is quite discomfiting. It happened while I was at Whattaburger yesterday. I have a standard order I place every time I go. I order a #1, ketchup, pickles, and onions only; substitute onion rings for the fries; and substitute a chocolate malt for the drink. I've ordered it a hundred times before. I know what it costs and I know what I should be seeing on the screen that Whattaburger usefully provides to all its customers. I've placed this order a hundred times, and, ninety times, they got it wrong. However, looking at the screen, I can see the mistakes being made, and help the minimum wage, minimum education worker get it right before my burger is made. My experience yesterday was typical, except in the duration of the correction process and in the reaction of the person behind me in line. My checker got the burger right, but had trouble subbing the onion rings. After I asked her to sub onion rings for the fries, she told me that I already get fries. Yes, I knew that, I explained. I wanted onion rings instead of the fries. No, I hadn't said that, she informed me. She told me that I had asked to sub onion rings for the fries. Yes, that is what I wanted, onion rings, not fries. No, that is not what I said. OK, please change the fries to onion rings. OK. Done. Now, the drink: "May I have a chocolate malt instead of the drink;" I carefully avoided the monumentally confusing word "substitute." She rang up a full-priced malt at $2.90. If the order were filled as rung, I'd get two drinks and pay full price for the malt. "No," I told her, "substitute the malt for the drink." Having finally grasped the s-word, but having some other disconnect, she said, "I did." I double-checked the overhead menu. Yep, $2.99 is the full price. "You rang up two drinks. The price is wrong." Behind me in line, another Whattaburger minimum worker had been grumbling about being on her break and running out of time. I had tried to ignore her comments, clearly intended to chastise me for having the nerve to expect my order to be right and to take the time to patiently assist the clerk in getting it right. As her break time ticked away, she decided to insert herself into the situation more forcefully. She tells my clerk that she did it right and that I was wrong. I told my minimum wager that she did ring it up wrong and that she has charged me twice as much for the malt as she should. Her correction was to delete the order completely and start over. No problem for me. Big problem for minimum education #2 behind me. Things might have come out OK. I really think that minimum #1 was about to get the drink right; she just didn't know how to make a correction any way other than starting over. She got the burger wrong. She started over. Minimum worker #2 had all she could take and physically inserted herself between me and minimum worker #1. Having had all I could take of her rudeness, I bluntly informed her that this was my order, and, if her break was running out, that was not my fault, and I was going to take the time to make sure my order was right. She decided to continue to rudely argue with me about it. This not being the best tack for me getting my order correct in any kind of timely manner, I called over the manager (who, incidentally, was within earshot of the whole thing). He calmly asked #2 to come behind the counter. I have no doubt he was going to discuss with her the best way to talk to his customers. She said, "No." Unphased, he calmly told her to step into the back. She said, "No," again! He told her to clock out and go home; she was fired. She clocked out and paraded around to all of her co-minimum-workers, overblowing her waves-goodbye, and happily proclaiming that the manager would not listen to her side of the story. I cannot help but think that she feels like she scored some kind of victory over management and the customers, like she has martyred herself for the "cause," whatever cause that might have been. Meanwhile, minimum #1 got it right; I was charged $1.45 for the subbed malt, as the register automatically does on a subbed shake. The manager personally (and with somewhat exaggerated pleasantry) filled my order, taking care to make sure that they had gotten it exactly right. They had. I went back to my Saturday in the classroom getting ready for next week. I am sure the rest of the Whattaburger crew went about their usual business. I don't know what minimum martyr did. We can only imagine. Here is why it was not surprising: I experience almost the exact same reaction in school every day. There is a startling increase in the number of adolescents who are willing to use the word, "no," when told what to do by someone in authority. Being in an educational environment, I see it as my responsibility to teach the kids to react properly. When I am given the n-word, I simply repeat what was a polite request as a direct imperative. Often, I get a second no. I take pains to make sure that I am absolutely clear when I state the instruction one last time, also making it clear that this is one last time. More often than not, a second no is followed by a third. At that point, I simply send the student to the office, where the consequences are out of my hand often inlcude a suspension. (The new management is decidedly less accepting of blatant defiance than the old.) Not surprisingly, the instruction to go to the office is sometimes met with yet a fourth no! In school, the consequences range from a stiff talking-to, to a suspension, and, if the defiance is repeated often, to an expulsion. In the real world, consequences can include a life-impacting firing. I hope my students learn not to say no to the people who run the place before entering the work-force. #2 did not learn this lesson in time. I will use her as a future example to all of my students, in the hope that they do. I have no doubt, though, that some will continue to see losing their jobs as a small price to pay for the chance to assert their independence against the man. Whattashame. |
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| Post #2 Sep 16 2007, 12:21 PM |
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Good story and good point, Eye95. At least manager got it right. At our local Braum's, the manager is ALWAYS right. Four orders on four different occasions, four mistakes. We stopped going. Since the manager is always RIGHT. As the saying goes: don't bite the hand that feeds you. As is the case with #2. I don't have a problem with someone questioning something, but out right refusal with a "no" is not acceptable, JMO. |
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| Post #3 Sep 16 2007, 03:49 PM |
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| I'm sorry to hear that there are more people out there hearing these things. But, it's not just the young. There is a woman (I hesitate to call her a lady) that works here in the hospital that I work in. She's probably about my age (48) and is constantly telling her boss "No". I still cannot understand how she hangs onto her job. In Memphis a lot of times you would think it's a racial thing, but not in this case. Just an older, apparently spoiled woman that still lives at home with her mom and will not do what she doesn't want to do. I'm talking about simple things like taking a sign off the wall. She had put a sign up stating that visitors and patients weren't allowed to use their cell phones in that area. Her area is a reception area with no medical equipment around to affect. Her boss asked her why and she said that the people talk too loud on their cell phones and it "gets on my nerves". She was told to remove the sign. Her answer was "No!". Her boss took down the sign. Then she asked her to dispose of it as the trash can was right beside her. Again, "No!". Her boss walked around the desk and threw it in the trash. My jaws hang open a lot lately watching this sort of behavior. So, Eye, be careful when you tell your students that they can't get away with this sort of behavior. They may have an aunt working somewhere that gets away with that very sort of thing every day. But, I must say, I'm very happy to hear that there are a few managers still out there that won't stand for it. And, I'm happy to know that I know someone that actually got to witness appropriate action in action. |
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| Post #4 Sep 16 2007, 08:49 PM |
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This type of scenario is ever so common. I used to see it in my local Whateverburgerplace all the time, but it appears that it is under new management, so it doesn't happen nearly as often. Their employees are mostly teens and young adults who typically don't have a firm grasp of quality customer service, but their service has improved a lot lately. There used to be one girl who would ignore me and carry on conversations with co workers as I stood at the counter waiting for her to pay attention to me. She didn't greet me or say thank-you, but she always got our order right, so I never said much. She isn't there anymore. I wasn't sure about this, but your recent episode appeared to have happened inside the restaurant, and not at a drivethru window. These kinds of mistakes are the exact reason that I now avoid drive thru windows at all costs regardless of the establishment. At least if you are inside, you can have a face-to-face conversation. |
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| Post #5 Sep 22 2007, 09:38 PM |
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| Reopened. Please keep the discussion to the civility aspect--the point of the story. Thank you. |
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| Post #6 Sep 22 2007, 11:17 PM |
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I am glad you reopened this, because I had a thought tonight that may relate to the topic. My thought basically consisted of one word: Autonomy. The state of independence. Of or having authority over oneself. Many of today's youth have too much autonomy, or at least they think that they do. So what we have is a generation in anarchy. It isn't just that today's young people have little or no respect for authority, but they have answered to little or no authority for much of their formative growth, particularly parental authority, which is also essential for transitioning into adulthood. My views on this topic are quite traditionalist, but I believe that with the onset of women in the workforce, youth have suffered a lack of direction and training necessary for the real world. First, between the times that children arrive home from school and parents arrive home from work, children answer to no authority other than their own. Second, fatigued and stressed parents are more likely to be inconsistent in enforcement of moral standards and principals, as well as discipline and punishments. This concept became clear to me this weekend when my son's friend come over to visit. This friend's parents are terribly inconsistent in their rules and disciplines which has resulted in a near total lack of authority in his home. He is, for all practical purposes, spoiled and used to having the world go his way. (I witnessed his dad tell him to do something once, and he walked away. Later I asked him, "Didn't your dad tell you to do something?" His reply was, "Yeah, but he didn't mean it.") When my son hangs with this kid, he becomes much more bold, argumentative, and disrespectful towards me than usual, taking authority unto himself when he knows full well that my authority still reigns. He is usually not nearly this combative with me, so while I understand the influence that this kid has on my son, I cannot permit it. It has been a challenging weekend thus far. Thank goodness it's over for now. Every time I told my son do to something, I got an argument and every time my son wanted to do something and was denied permission, I got major attitude. And he's only 10. I have 8 more years of this to go. When we sit down and talk to him about his behavior, we consistently refer to the real world and try to make the connection between respect for our authority as parents and respect for authority in the workplace and in society with regard to the law. "When you get a job, there will be no tolerance for that kind of attitude. If you won't be responsible for the task your boss assigns you, then he/she will find someone who will." I can only hope that someday those words will still echo in his mind. |
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| Post #7 Sep 23 2007, 10:46 AM |
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| Full time working moms often equates to part time parenting. |
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| Post #8 Sep 23 2007, 04:38 PM |
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Your analysis is dead on with my observations. Invariably, when I have a conference with a parent of a defiant child, I find that the parent thinks that expecting the child to do as he was told is unreasonable. This leads to adolescents and young adults who boldly say no to teachers and bosses. Parents have to start parenting, or our society is in deep trouble. |
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| Post #9 Sep 23 2007, 09:30 PM |
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I agree. But I think we are already 1 to 2 generations into parents not parenting. Hubby and I were discussing this subject this morning. In addition people as a whole are being taught to tolerate bad behavior in others. |
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| Post #10 Oct 1 2007, 12:37 PM |
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I am just reading over this again. You know, Goofball, I think I have to agree with you and your hubby about the "not parenting" issue. But, I just keep wondering if there isn't something I can do to "argh" do something! It really bothers me when I see the kids from the nearest school walk past the hospital I work in each day. This is a middle/high school so the lessons should have already been learned. They take up the entire sidewalk with just 2-8 of them spread out. I have yet to see any one of them stop to move out of an elderly person's way, let alone there may be a sick individual trying to get to or from their cars. I haven't seen or heard any of them say "excuse me" or "sorry" when they bump into someone. They usually just glare at the person that was in their way. They come by using foul language and using it loudly. Then, there are often the younger adults coming to pick up their very hard working parents, that wait in the car with the radio blasting. I don't know what happened to the days of "Quiet. Hospital" zones. I can't really speak as to how they could have been raised differently because I wasn't blessed with children, but I do have a couple of grown very well behaved adult step-children. I do like to think that I would have followed more closely in my own mom's way of doing things and taught at least the basic manners and courtesies. I do try to influence when I see these things, but in this day and age, you are worried to say too much because you never know which "child" is carrying a gun. When I was a kid, it didn't matter who the older person was, you were ALWAYS polite. Since, it seems most of you are parents, do you have any suggestions for me on how to speak to them without offending the parents? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering if there is place that I overstep my boundaries just by stating that they "could at least say excuse me". Thanks! |
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| Post #11 Oct 1 2007, 04:08 PM |
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There are a couple of ways to look at this. First of all, with the other kids I have dealt with, they were in my home where I had every right to enforce certain rules of conduct. And second, any efforts that I have put into addressing children's behavior with their parents have been unproductive and for naught. When you are out in public, I would find it difficult to address youthful misbehavior because you are really in no position of authority over them. However, my experience tells me that parental intervention is rare. Therefore, I don't see any risk and I don't know what you would have to lose by trying. I would address the kids as politely as possible, not out of an effort to avoid offending them, but out of an effort to gain respect from them. The more authoritative a tone you take, the more likely you are to simply get a rebellious response. |
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| Post #12 Oct 1 2007, 04:15 PM |
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| Thanks, Nikki. I'll give it a shot. I guess you're right about not worrying about the parents. It's not like they are there. I just want to see the elderly and sickly treated with respect. Not that I'm not old enough for them to think of me as elderly, but.... ;) |
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| Post #13 Oct 1 2007, 05:53 PM |
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I was at Turner Field a few months ago. A pre-teen bumped into an elderly person and just kept going. What made it so bad is that he was with an adult, whom I presumed was his dad, who said nothing. I said something. I hoped Dad heard me chastise his kid. He was the intended recipient of my rebuke. |
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