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| Why do you bother?; Question for all religious people | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 21 2007, 11:24 PM (1,367 Views) | |
| Post #21 Aug 9 2007, 03:57 PM |
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| Yes, you make wonderful sense (especially for one named Goofball ;) ) |
Civilian
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| Post #22 Aug 9 2007, 05:33 PM |
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ChelleDawn, I'm LMAO :P My screen name only refers to my personality, not my intelligence or lack of. :P I learned a long time ago, not to take life too seriously (as I did in my much younger years, I was more serious than a heart attack). So, the screen name is fitting for me and my attitude towards life. B) |
Civil Servant
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| Post #23 Aug 9 2007, 05:59 PM | Son N Law |
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Oy veh! I really hope I don't end up regretting this, but if y'all don't mind, allow your Friendly Neighborhood Infidel to ask a few earnest questions and make a few points on this topic. I assure you, I mean to offend no one. So, here goes: ChelleDawn, I definitely don't think you're alone. In fact, I believe that all religious people do exactly this, to some degree or another. In my experience, no two religious people believe exactly the same thing. My question related to that observation is this: do you ever stop to think, "You know, I'm sort of acquiring bits and pieces of the teachings of others that sound right, with no real way to empirically test those ideas against one another to weed them out, so is it possible that none of this represents any sort of reality, and I'm just choosing to believe what makes me feel good?" And again, please don't think I'm casting aspersions here. I'm simply trying to open up the pathways of communication and get a peek into a mindset I simply do not understand, and maybe give you a peek into a mindset you don't understand. I've asked that question to religious friends before, and their answer has been something to the effect of, "Well, all you have to do is read the scripture; all the answers are there." And they're right. Alllll of the answers are there. Just about any answer you want to find. In fact, you can use scripture to back up just about any belief, within a certain range of ideas. And I'm not just talking about the Bible; I mean all sacred texts, which all make about as much sense as any other, in my opinion. Let me back up, though. I should probably delete that last paragraph because I've just noticed a huge mistake in it, but for the sake of expressing just how difficult it is to get to the bottom of all this, I'll leave it. The mistake I've made is in implying that people use scripture to justify any belief, when in fact, I've seen several assertions made in this very thread that directly contradict the scriptural teachings of the faith of those who made the assertions. And I don't mean contradict one verse -- I mean that there simply isn't a verse to be found that supports said assertions, and plenty to be found that contradict them. So here's where my truly earnest, heartfelt question comes in -- the one that I promise you is intended in no way, shape, or form to offend, but probably will anyway. Given all of this, why is it that religious beliefs deserve respect, even from those who don't hold those beliefs? I once saw a cartoon where Guy A spouts all sorts of wacky ideas -- stuff the Weekly World News wouldn't have printed -- and Guy B starts to refute them all point by point. But then Guy A says, "But wait, those are my religious beliefs!" And Guy B says, "Oh, I can respect that, then." It's a cartoon, yes, but it represents a very real struggle that a lot of us have: why is it that we feel the need to respect ideas that are built on... what? Feelings? I'll be honest with you: this is one of the major reasons that religious folk scare us non-religious folk half to death. I'm not kidding. You terrify us. So much so that my wife and I are seriously looking for other, less-religious countries in which to live, if we can even afford the move. And if you just believed these things and went about your day, it would be one thing. But it's another thing entirely when people who believe things for no other reason than that they feel true want the legislation of an entire country based on those beliefs. So to sum, because I know I've rambled (and I apologize for such): How do you decide what to believe and what not to believe? Does it bother you that everyone has a different answer to that question? Does it ever occur to you that the whole lot of it merely feels right, and doesn't represent any sort of reality? Given that there's no empirical basis for any of it, why should we respect religious beliefs? In other words, why do I feel like I'm in danger of really hurting someone or ticking someone off by asking these questions, when I don't feel the same fear when I tell someone that their ideas about climate change are a bunch of bupkis? And why shouldn't us non-religious folk be trembling in fear at the very thought of a country run by people who want the rules of their religion imposed upon everyone? Again, no offense intended at all. I'm not trying to set a trap for anyone. I'm merely trying to have an honest conversation that so few people seem willing or able to have. |
Fool, apparently
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| Post #24 Aug 10 2007, 10:04 AM |
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Son N Law, I think you've asked all the same questions I would have, had I ever given it any deep thought. I've seen what you're talking about on another message board. The religious folks get all over us non-religious folks. I think that is why I say "I'm a spiritual person" - so far no one has been able to attack me on that one. But if I say I'm athiest - then I will be questioned as to why don't I believe. If I say I'm "blank religion", it will be why that one and not some other. Thank you for expressing what I've been thinking in the far reaches of my mind. |
Civil Servant
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| Post #25 Aug 10 2007, 10:08 AM |
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Son in Law, no offense wahtsoever, because the truth is, I just don't know. That's probably why I asked the question in the first place. I don't think I take something from one train of thought that makes me feel "good". I'm not questioning my faith in God whatsoever. Call it a gut feeling if you want, but I have profound faith in my knowing that there is a God. That being said, all these different "branches" in the family of Christianity are started by some not agreeing with some other part of another's doctrine. Some of one just makes more sense to me than ALL of one. No matter what one thinks of their own religion, they are facilitated by people. Flawed people. I just don't want to be a sheep and go along "just because...". I have things that click, and some that don't. I'm absolutely certain that this doesn't clear anything up, but I'm a Super Flawed person. As to religion governing the country, I'm not sure I see it that way. I'm against things because I feel they are wrong. Morally, legally. Abortion, death penalty, immigration, etc...I'm not sure my faith leans me more in one direction than another. I think my thoughts run more to personal responsibility. I would hope that I'd have the same views even if I didn't believe in God. You're very right about being able to find just about whatever you want in the Bible to justify a myriad of things. That's why I think it's a personal journey. A person reads the Bible, through their very own filter. You discern what it means. You read it in it's full context and you live the best life that you know how with the information that you are given. A person's got to make choices that they believe are correct, not choices that make them feel good. Choices we make and the path we take aren't to feel "good", but yet comforted. Believing that I'm attempting to live my life the way God wants me to live it, gives me comfort and a sense of peace. After I have a sense of peace, then comes the joy and happiness. I'm super sorry that you're scared by religuous folk. I can see how it happens though. It's not just people of no faith that others scare. I'm a Roman Catholic in the Bible belt. Catholicism isn't very popualr in my neck of the woods. It'd be more accepted if I took up poisonous snakes. Really. Some folks do put me off. Also, I don't respect everyone else's religion. I respect their right to believe the way they do, but I think some people are off their rockers.... |
Civilian
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| Post #26 Aug 10 2007, 10:22 AM |
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Also, just let me add that even after you've done all your searching, and you've come to believe it's nothing for folks to get so uppidy about, and you have no clue to what the big deal is, I respect your right to believe that, even if I don't "get" what in the world there is "not to get". See, we can still have nice conversations about life (Lord of the Rings, politics, etc.) and I'm not always thinking that, "Oh, my! He's a heathen and will burn in Hell if I don't make him see Jesus ASAP!" People are people and they each have very different reasons and experiences to bring them to different places in their lives. You've gotta make choices that are right for you. I wish you well in that (See, i didn't say I'd pray for you
;) ) Who knows, I may be totally wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I'm enjoying my life and my realtionship with God. If I died and found out it was just a dirt nap, I still wouldn't regret anything. Not a thing.... May the force be with you..... :lol: |
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| Post #27 Aug 10 2007, 10:57 AM | Son N Law |
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Good answers! Well, to be honest, they're not answers that would satisfy me, but you know what I mean. That I can live with. That doesn't scare me silly. That sort of thinking doesn't have me checking into New Zealand's housing market. :) |
Fool, apparently
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| Post #28 Aug 10 2007, 11:19 AM |
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WHAT?!?!?! You mean I didn't convert you to a Jesus fanatic with my miles and miles of wisdom??? There's just no sense left in the world..... Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I want to visit New Zealand. Beautiful. Just beautiful. |
Civilian
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| Post #29 Aug 10 2007, 12:56 PM |
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SiL, I can relate to your fear of religion, especially the thought of governments running on religious doctrine. Yet I would hope if I ever got in to politics I would use my religious beliefs (which may not even be too religious) to help me perform my government duties. Everyone brings their values to the table - that is why any religion that only recognizes their own belief structure as within the realm of G-dly scares me. I am at a swim meet and have been supervising teens until the wee hours for too many nights, so forgive me if this makes no sense... Oh and SiL - we're here, there and everywhere... even there ;) |
Civil Servant
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| Post #30 Aug 10 2007, 01:08 PM | Son N Law |
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Oh, I know this is horrible, but all I could think of at the sight of that was, "I've got JEWS in my Middle-Earth."
:D Blame it on Melvin Udall. |
Fool, apparently
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