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| Why do you bother?; Question for all religious people | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 21 2007, 11:24 PM (1,366 Views) | |
| Post #1 Jun 21 2007, 11:24 PM | Wahy'a |
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My literature teacher is Muslim, and every class, I look at her and think: why does she bother?! We're all infidels with our names written down on the walls of hell; so why bother teaching us? It's not like we're going to convert any time soon. Seriously. I have religious friends and sometimes I think, 'Why do they make friends with non-religious people or people of other religions if they're only going to have their soul damned for all eternity?' I mean, if you make a best friend who you believe is going to hell for her/his beliefs (or lack thereof), then I think you'd be pretty sad, right? Why not save yourself the grief? And that's another thing. Do most religious people actually believe that others not of their religion are going to hell? Even the ones that are virtuous, have strong ethical and moral beliefs, and are truly good people? Seems kind of harsh, especially if that person's only fault is that he finds himself unable to believe in God or for believing in the 'wrong' religion. Personally I don't mind if I have religious friends or whatever (in fact, ALL of my friends are religious) since I don't believe in hell. To me it doesn't matter what you believe, so long as you aren't killing people over it. :D But I'm just curious to see how religious people see it. No offense intended (please don't be offended!), just a question. Seriously, why? |
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| Post #2 Jun 22 2007, 12:24 AM | Rongo |
I'm a Christian who is practicing. I have a set of beliefs and I have chosen going to church regularly to express them and share in the expression with those that share a similar set of beliefs. I'm involved in church leadership, participate in events, etc. etc. I'm not sure if this qualifies me as religious, but there you go. I've always had a hard time defining that word. ANYWAY: I have a path on which I walk with God. I have no way of knowing whether there is only one path, but it would seem like a big waste of spiritual space (if you will) to have only one path. There's not a lot of talk about hell in my church (Presbyterian) and we don't talk a lot about what happens to people who are not Presbyterian/Christian. We talk a lot about what being Christian means in application. We talk about Grace. We talk about personal responsibility and choices and being able to share our spirituality with those who wish to share it. Whether there is a hell, who is going to it, who is wrong and right, we tend to leave those matters to God. So, I guess that's my answer. I don't know about most religious people, but for me, I don't think those of other religions are going to hell. I think people who intend to abuse and destroy innocents are going to hell, religious or not. Even if they are Presbyterians ;) Of course, if they are Presbyterians, a committe will be formed, divided into subcommittees, divided into divisions and the division heads would meet on the first Tuesday of every month, the subcommittees would meet on the second wednesday and the entire committee would hold an informational meeting with the congregation on the fourth Sunday after coffee hour and second worship to vote on whether or not we all agreed on the evilness of said people. And there'd be a budget meeting about it after all was said and done. :D If anybody else if Presbyterian, you know what I'm saying. |
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| Post #3 Jun 22 2007, 07:20 AM |
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| Not to associate with people (or not to teach them--I am a teacher) because they are not of my faith, Christianity, would be to judge them. I would, in essence, say to them, "You are not saved, therefore, I will have nothing to do with you." In addition to the fact that I would be working against God (He is constantly reaching out the the unsaved), I would be placing people in the Saved and Unsaved groups. Acting in such a way is the height of arrogance. Judging is God's purview, not mine. Such picking and choosing would be me playing God! And, He specifically instructs us not to do that. |
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| Post #4 Jun 22 2007, 10:37 AM | SyndeeLynn |
| I agree with eye95. God did not give us the job of judge. He is the judge. However, if you believe in Heaven, it’s hard for me to believe that you do not believe in God. Who created Heaven? What is Heaven and where did it come from? There is almost always an opposite too everything. Good, bad, up, down. Heaven, Hell. I believe there is a Hell and that people will go there. I do not get to decide who nor will I waste my time pondering who I think will or should go there. I am a Christian and believe that there is really only one way to get to Heaven. I believe that if you have not accepted Christ as your Savior, you will not go to Heaven. It is not just being good. Everyone has bad in them somewhere. That’s where God’s grace comes in. His grace is saved for those who believe in Him. This means that if you accept Christ as you Savior and you happen to be Catholic, Presbyterian, Mormon, Protestant, Jehovah Witness or any other of the many, many religions out there, you will go to Heaven. This of course is my belief and I do not mean to offend anyone. :rolleyes: |
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| Post #5 Jun 22 2007, 11:02 AM |
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The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18 |
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| Post #6 Jun 22 2007, 11:08 AM |
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| Also, I would never not be friends with someone just because they weren't of the same faith as me, or no faith at all. Maybe (hopefully) I would be a good example and make others curious or even desirous of my Faith. I never preach to my friends, unless they ask (then watch out). |
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| Post #7 Jul 1 2007, 10:16 PM | Wahy'a |
| Interesting. I like Rongo's way of looking at it. Though I have to wonder, if you think that only people who accept Jesus as their saviour go to heaven, then what about all the people who came before Jesus? They never got a chance... |
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| Post #8 Jul 2 2007, 02:50 AM |
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That is a common misconception about Christianity. Paul explains in Romans 4 that those who believed before Christ came are saved by the same faith as those who believe after he was raised from the dead. It was the same faith, simply from a different vantage point. From Abraham through to John the Baptist, faith was focused in the promised Messiah to come, the fulfillment of the first gospel promise in Genesis 3:15 - the promise given also to Abraham, and through him to Israel. Their faith was forward focused. Believing the promise of God that He would fulfill all that He had promised. Now that same faith has a backward focus. Belief in the promised Messiah who has come and fulfilled all the promises of God in the Old Covenant. That he has finished the work set before Him by God (our salvation by taking upon Himself the guilt, shame and punishment for the sins of all who would believe in Him) and is now seated at the right hand of God, waiting for the appointed time to return for the fullness of His glory and His bride, the Church. In other words, Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ (Messiah), the Son of God, is the climax of history, God's 'story', if you will, and the meaning of all existence. |
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| Post #9 Jul 2 2007, 09:30 AM |
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I have always looked on the Bible as the Word of God revealed to Christians (including me). It outlines God's covenant with us Christians. I don't believe that it precludes God having different covenants with others. I think that to presume so would be to judge others as we have been explicitly instructed not to do. By hamstringing God (we actually cannot do this), allowing Him only to save those who have heard the Word of the NT, we are acting in His stead and judging the salvation of others, thereby risking our own salvation. I do believe that if someone is presented the Gospels, then it is surely God's intention that it will be faith in Jesus that saves him. However, if someone has not had this opportunity, I won't personally preclude the possibility that God will save him some other way. I will also not disregard the possibility that the person will not be saved. That's God's call and not mine. My sense of what is right (mine, not God's, although I hope that my relationship with Him has given me a more accurate sense of what is right) leads me to want God to save people who have not even heard of the NT. Yet, I must remind myself that God's knowledge and judgment are perfect. Mine are severely flawed. |
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| Post #10 Jul 2 2007, 03:38 PM |
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Eye, You are making the classic "fairness" argument, though indirectly. Your desire that God would save those who have not heard implies that it would be unfair for Him to do otherwise in our estimation. But the question is not, "Why is there only one way to be saved." The fairness question should be, "Why is anyone saved." Not trying to put words in your mouth or anything... And I think you might be overly broad in your application of "Judge not lest ye be judged." Being given the scriptures and knowing them to be God's Word, as you say, would preclude any ability for them not to be God's Word for anyone else. Either the Bible is God's Word, or it isn't. It doesn't become something it wasn't before simply by reading it. xo G |
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| Post #11 Jul 2 2007, 03:48 PM |
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That the NT is God's Word does not preclude anything else from being God's Word. I know that it is the sum total of His Word for me. I just won't make the claim that it is the only Word for others. I think that would be me binding Go--and that is backwards. That being said, the NT may well be the only Word for everybody. Like I said in my other post, I hope God has a plan for eternal life for those who have never had a chance to read the NT. That stems from my sense of right and wrong, which comes from my being a Christian. It is admittedly flawed, and, if God were to leave unsaved millions who have not heard the NT, then that would be, by definition, right and good. |
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| Post #12 Jul 3 2007, 12:47 AM | tanack |
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Hello Wahya .... (i hope i'm doing this correctly) ... you spoke of hell and said you do not believe in 'hell' ..... surely hell means many different things to different people ...... Some are positive it is a hideous place of extreme torture where there is unimaginable pain and suffering .... and yet torture is considered an evil by most of us, and capital punishment is no longer acceptable in most areas ....... For me, it is not possible to love, respect or want anything to do with one who would create/allow an actual place where humans or any other life forms, were subjected to torture for any period of time, much less an unimaginable eternity ..... to accept that such a place could be justified, for me, would be a betrayal of all that i believe in. Though i've come to believe that as we learn, and become more and more aware of what we have done wrong, or wish we had done differently, and/or realize how our actions may have hurt others, or in the least, didn't help others ..... regret, remorse happens .... a very personal hell ....... even though that awareness might not happen or be complete until we with whomever, review our life while we dwelled in these human bodies ..... |
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| Post #13 Jul 10 2007, 10:24 PM |
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IMO G-d can have more than one covenant, more than one holy book. Even on a human level, I can have one set of rules for one group I am working with and one for another. Luckily for me (and hopefully everybody) my faith believes that the righteous of all nations will be rewarded. |
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| Post #14 Jul 10 2007, 11:09 PM |
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Yes, mine too. The difference being, I imagine, in the definition of righteousness, and whose. :-) |
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| Post #15 Aug 7 2007, 07:45 AM | enquiringinfoman |
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I cannot answer for Muslims, Jews or any other faith than my own, but I associate with people not of my faith because as a Christian I was taught Christianity is an invitation, not a goal. I was taught that living my life by God's rule makes me an example to others. If they like what they see, they are welcome to join. If not, I'm taught not to worry over it. I have no idea if someone else is going to Hell or not. Actually, I'm taught the unsaved would be judged by God someday and God decides whether they go to Heaven or otherwise. As to my believing the Bible is the word of God, that's an individual choice. My belief in that should have no affect on someone else nor should their doubt about affect me. One thing I think is often misconceived. It's not who you believe in that saves Christians just like it wasn't such belief that would have saved those before Christianity, it's their faith in God. Just like native peoples who have no concept of Christianity will be saved as God sees fit. God is a concept much too large to be just a "who." I believe for myself. I share with others who seek something greater in their life. I don't dwell on the fate of those who choose otherwise. Their fate is not my concern. My only concern is not turning any of them away that want to know him. |
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| Post #16 Aug 7 2007, 07:49 AM | enquiringinfoman |
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The difference being, I imagine, in the definition of righteousness, and whose The only definition that will apply will be that of the ultimate Judge otherwise any nation could and probably would judge itself righteous in order to be saved. If there is no ultimate Judge then it would be like a misbehaving child deciding if it was right or wrong and I think we know how that would turn out. |
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| Post #17 Aug 9 2007, 01:44 PM |
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| I hope this isn't a silly question, and I didn't want to start a new thread on it, but does anyone feel like me when it comes to religion? I feel like a mutt. I call myself a Heinz 57, because I've identified myself with different "breeds" of Christianity for a long time. I am now a Roman Catholic, but have been Baptist, Assembly of God, Methodist...etc. I know you can't help but bring certain experiences with you as you grow older, but I find it hard to swallow all of all the religions I've mentioned, and I also take a bit from each into who I am now. I'm sure it's not real unusual, but I was just curious if others feel the same. Sorry if it's a lame question, but that can be part of me as well... ;) |
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| Post #18 Aug 9 2007, 02:26 PM |
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ChelleDawn, I get what you're saying. As a kid I'd go with a neighbor to a Baptist church. Then we moved and I ended up going to the same church with one of my girlfriends. Then at age 11 my mother decided (after no religion whatsoever) that we were going to be Jehovah's Witnesses. That lasted for 3 years. We stopped attending church when I started HS. At that point I was pretty much OFF religion. After I had my daughter, I again got curious, for lack of a better word. I had a girlfriend that was Mormon, so I sort of looked into that - but just couldn't quite go there. Then I got involved with another "religion" for 19 years. Left that "group" last summer and hooked up with a similar "group". But I'm not thrilled with that either. And now I'm interested in learning about Buddhism. A lot of the preachings from the 19 years was based on Buddhism, so I figure I'll go to the source. I bought a book to read, but haven't even cracked it open yet. (And the strange thing is that my daughter read a book on Buddhism a few months ago and never even told me. So, it seems we are both searching.) I have so many beliefs in my head, I sometimes don't know what to make of any of them. :( |
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| Post #19 Aug 9 2007, 03:04 PM |
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| You know, I don't believe I'm cherry picking things I like from one religion and putting it in with what I practice now, but some things lead me to believe some of one and some of another. I'd like to think I was perfect and make all the right decisions, but nope, no way. Some things just make more sense to me. I feel comfortable in my walk with God, so I suppose that is what matters. Me and Jesus, we be mates...as Crocodile Dundee once said. |
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| Post #20 Aug 9 2007, 03:21 PM |
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ChelleDawn, I believe you have to go with what is true for you (or what works for you). If you understand and accept (believe) on belief over another, that's what you go with. I wouldn't call it "cherry picking". I call it - believing what you believe. I hope I'm making sense. :blink: |
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