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| A question for Non-Christians.. | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 11 2006, 05:59 PM (1,788 Views) | |
| Post #41 Jan 30 2007, 01:10 PM |
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Quite simply, if the God I believe in is in fact who the Scriptures claim that He is, then He, in all three of His persons, demands your allegiance, obedience and worship, not only because He created you, but based merely on who He is. It is rebellion not to worship Him, for the mere fact that He alone is worthy of worship. And also, please feel free to ask me any question on anything. I will do my best to represent the Scriptures as I understand them (which I hold as my only authority), from the perspective of historic Reformed Christianity. |
Civilian
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| Post #42 Jan 30 2007, 05:18 PM | Son N Law |
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Okay, I'm obviously doing a wretched job of conveying my point here. Let me take another stab at it, and please, accept my apologies if it's still clear as mud.
:huh: It cannot be rebellion not to worship God if I don't believe he's there to worship. If I do believe that God exists, and I actively choose not to worship him, that's good old fashioned rebellion. If God does exist, he has done a really bad job of convincing me that he's up there, or out there, or wherever. And I've looked. Really hard. If He exists and has done any demanding, I didn't hear it. That's not my fault. That's not rebellion. |
Fool, apparently
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| Post #43 Jan 30 2007, 08:10 PM |
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but what if God believes in you? j/k, I always hated that response (true or not) I guess what I am saying, and perhaps equally unclear, is that it doesn't matter whether or not you think you are rebelling. It's not your standard or perception of reality that matters ultimately, if indeed God does exist. Romans 1:18 and following tells me that your being unconvinced says more about you and less about the evidence. ;) |
Civilian
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| Post #44 Jan 31 2007, 06:07 PM | Son N Law |
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Okay, so if I'm reading you right, you think I'm a fool, and an unrighteous one at that? I hope I've read you wrong. Either way, I'm going to go ahead and bow out of this exchange. But allow me to make one more point before I go. People sort of have this idea that atheists are angry people. And on the whole, at least amongst the ones I know, this couldn't be further from the truth. But whether you intend it or not, this attitude you've taken toward me... well, it hasn't made me angry yet, but if we keep going down this road, it's going to eventually, so I'm going to take a hike before it does. Because I've had this conversation many times now, and it always ends exactly the same way. I'm the bad guy. I'm the dirty unbeliever. My unbelief couldn't possibly be due to the fact that I've searched hard for truth and discovered that, at the very least, I couldn't find it in religion or faith. It has to be that I've made the choice to reject God. Or, if not, it's because something in my heart made God reject me. Somehow or another, it has to be my fault. Faced with that sort of argument time and time and time again, one starts to get a bit miffed. Have fun, all. It's been a pleasure. I hope these forums stay true to their original intent and high standards. I'll probably lurk from time to time and I'll still zap the smutty spam when I see it; I simply don't see it as prudent for me to contribute to the intercourse anymore. |
Fool, apparently
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| Post #45 Jan 31 2007, 08:12 PM |
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No no no no no!! I was not trying to raise your ire in the least. I did not, nor did I intend to imply that you were a fool at all. You are clearly an intelligent person who has done no small amount of research. I'm in no way saying you are a bad guy or angry or anything like that. You asked me a question, I attempted to answer you. Nothing I said was intended to be any kind of personal attack. I was saying very simply, that if you are right, then it is true that you are not rebelling against anything. But if you are wrong, then you are. You are working off the assumption that the God of the bible does not exist, and I am working off the assumption that He does. I was not taking any "attitude" towards you intentionally or otherwise. I certainly regret that it was read that way. The reasons I listed are based on scripture, which, if God does not exist, are worthless and hold no water. So I'm not certain why it upset you. I was not making any personal judgment or any claim on you at all. I have no ability to do so. The Romans 1 reference was actually given somewhat tongue in cheek, but I suppose it was too early in our 'relationship' to think you would receive it that way. I just figured since you didn't believe it, that you would take it with a grain of salt. I truly hope you don't leave. I have enjoyed the interaction we have had so far and the last thing I intended was to drive you away. I certainly don't want this to be the first impression I leave on the board... I assure you there was never an ounce of malice or anger in anything I typed. I hold no ill will towards you. :huh: |
Civilian
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| Post #46 Feb 3 2007, 10:57 AM |
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| This is the danger in discussing religion (or politics). It usually degrades to the point where someone, or many, feel slighted, or maligned. These are very difficult topics to discuss civilly. After all, it's only a matter of eternal life or eternal death - nothing major. ;) or, perhaps not. |
Civilian
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| Post #47 Feb 3 2007, 01:23 PM |
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Yes it is difficult to discuss in a public forum like this. Especially since we have no way of truly reading the 'supersegmentals' of those we are posting with, and so we can often project imaginary motives onto others. I know I do it all the time. But SnL and I have talked off-list and have ironed out our mutual misunderstanding. |
Civilian
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| Post #48 Feb 3 2007, 02:49 PM |
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| I was glad to hear you guys ironed things out. I enjoy reading your posts and SNL's as well. :) |
Civil Servant
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| Post #49 Feb 3 2007, 06:10 PM |
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Gentry is a long-time poster on mets.com. He is a gentle spirit who doesn't get ruffled--even when wantonly attacked by extremely antagonistic posters. Trust me, he is not ever going to be incivil in the least. Sorry if I have embarrassed you by talking about you, Gentry. |
Administrator
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| Post #50 Feb 3 2007, 07:38 PM |
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| Gentry is awesome! I've often wished that I could "discuss" religion as well as he does. I've always admired his tempered posts and his knowledge of the subject. Even with all of that, it's still a very difficult topic to discuss civilly. |
Civilian
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| Post #51 Feb 4 2007, 10:45 PM |
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I appreciate all the encouragement guys. It's all grace. Recently though I've noticed my impenetrable forcefield has some holes.... my patience with some posters on mets.com has been wearing thin... familiarity breeds contempt as they say.... but i think it has more to do with the slow off season than anything... that board has been even more hostile than normal. I even had my very own unprovoked attack yesterday.. very strange... but the thread was deleted pretty quickly.. i didn't even get to read any of the posts after the first two. but i digress... Even though we talked, I'm not certain whether SNL will return to this thread, or the religion forum, which is unfortunate. But he'll do what he must. Hopefully he will stick around the board and contribute as he has in the past. His insight is valuable. Ned, do I know you by another nick on Mets.com? |
Civilian
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| Post #52 Feb 4 2007, 11:16 PM |
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| I hope SNL returns. I appreciate his thoughtful posts. |
Civil Servant
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| Post #53 Feb 5 2007, 09:26 AM |
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Ditto that. G, you'll find me as thatsrightthemets over there. Mets.com is an extremely juvenile message board, unfortunately. Plenty of "internet muscles' being flexed there. |
Civilian
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