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| A question for Non-Christians.. | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 11 2006, 05:59 PM (1,787 Views) | |
| Post #1 Jan 11 2006, 05:59 PM | Civil Lized |
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I have a question for anyone who does not believe the Bible and does not put their faith in God. It is your choice and I'm sure you have reason to base your opinion on whatever you want, but have you ever thought about this: What if there is a God and you don't believe in him when you die? What if Christians are right about non-believers going to Hell for eternity? Well the answer is: Your screwed. (Doomed ;) ) I have believed in God since I was a child but only recently (a few years ago) have I commited my life to him and truly understood Jesus' message. I have nothing against anyone who does not believe in God, I think you are misguided but that is all. I hope you think about this and maybe it will help you "open your eyes" to the truth. :) |
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| Post #2 Jan 11 2006, 08:05 PM | Son N Law |
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Ah, Pascal's wager, huh?
;) The thing is, though, what if Hinduism has it right? What if Islam is right? What if Judaism is right? But, simply for the sake of argument, if a mountain of evidence came to light tomorrow and it turns out the Bible is true, I'm screwed anyway, to use your own wording. According to the New Testament, there are all sorts of things for which one can be forgiven -- even denying the Christ, despite Luke 19 -- but there is one thing that cannot be forgiven: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. There's simply no going back from that. If the Bible is literally true, even if I become a completely committed missionary tomorrow, I'm going to hell and there's nothing I can do to change that. |
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| Post #3 Jan 12 2006, 02:59 AM | metzol |
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For me, spirituality is really a short term thing. I don't go to church because I want to be saved for the afterlife. I go to church and I pray because it is a source of comfort, inspiration, guidance to help get me through the here and now which can be very daunting at times. What's the point of life if all we do is worry about the afterlife? |
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| Post #4 Jan 12 2006, 11:46 PM | Kellyp |
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If I'm screwed for not believing in God then I am screwed anyway. I used to believe that I had better believe in God and Jesus...just in case that was truth. I might as well believe because if I'm right, I'm saved...and if I'm wrong, well, it didn't hurt to believe now did it? But it was false faith. Pointless, false faith. I didn't believe. I never believed. Not even when I went to church as a kid...I really just wanted the donuts they gave out for free. I was just too afraid to face the fact that I didn't believe. I finally, in the last few years, gave in to my lack of faith. I'm not going to pretend I believe in something my heart cries out against. And if I am going to hell for being true to myself after all those years of faking it, then I belong in your hell. I'm really okay with that. And, besides, I don't believe in hell so I'm really not worried. ;) |
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| Post #5 Jan 13 2006, 08:10 AM |
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Excellent point. When the Bible speaks of faith, It is not just talking an intellectually reasoned argument. Faith is a gut-level reaction. While you can start your journey with logic, you must finish it on another level, one that you won't understand unless you've been there. On Hell, I can tell you that, at one point in my life, I had disposed of faith and made statements like, "So what if I go to Hell." I'd just say that that is an awfully serious statement to make flippantly. |
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| Post #6 Jan 13 2006, 10:20 AM | thevoice |
Sure, but as somebody else pointed out, how do you know that you're God is the right God, and that by believing in him and following his word, that you'll end up in Heaven??? Answer: FAITH Some people believe this to be true, and good for them... If it provides them a source of comfort to believe that following God's words will lead to eternal bliss in afterlife, then that is certainly a good reason to believe... But, it all comes down to just that one word... Belief (or Faith)... Yeah, those who don't follow the Bible may end up in a place they're not happy with when they move on, but we just don't know... To me, I would HOPE that God (if he exists) would judge us more on how we treat our fellow human beings and judge us on our actions here on Earth, rather than what specific religion we chose to follow... Again, if every religion (major ones, minor ones, etc...) ALL believe that they are right, and that all the others are wrong, then I see one of 3 options (maybe more, but I'm still working on my first cup of coffee): 1) All but one religion are wrong, and we don't know which ONE religion is right 2) All religions are wrong 3) Your "religion", and the specific beliefs you follow aren't important, but what IS important is how we treat each other... I'd like to think it's the 3rd one, which is why, even though I don't follow any one religion (I am Jewish, but honestly haven't been to synagogue in many years), I try to treat people with compassion and respect, because I believe that THIS, more than anything else, is what God would want... |
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| Post #7 Jan 13 2006, 10:23 AM |
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voice! We missed you. I see a fourth option. I have to run, but I promise to expound later. |
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| Post #8 Jan 13 2006, 10:24 AM | thevoice |
Sorry Eye... Didn't mean to be away, but works been really hectic... I'll be here more frequently from now on!!! I'm sure there are many more options, and maybe after a few more cups of coffee, I'll come up with them!!! |
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| Post #9 Jan 13 2006, 08:00 PM |
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4.) A religion's teachings make it sound like it is the only "right" religion, so its followers tell everyone else that it is the only "right" religion. The New Testament clearly says that the only way to Heaven is acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior. Jesus tells us that no one comes to the Father but by Him (Jesus). We are also told that whoever believes in Jesus shall not perish, but have everlasting life. Most Christians read this to say that Christianity is the only true religion and, in particular, that denominations that teach "Saving Grace" are the only true religions. I don't profess to know all of God's plan, but I have considered the possibility that the message of Saving Grace is a message that I (and many others, but not everyone) have been given. In that context, through the Bible, God has specifically informed me that my only ticket to Heaven is Grace. I recognize that He may well have given a completely different message to someone else. Case in point, I'd like to think that God's covenant with His Chosen People is still in force for them, that their route, laid out in the Old Testament, is still available. I don't know, though. I hope so--for their sakes. But that is not my call. God alone decides who is admitted to Heaven and who is not. We may not agree with His decisions, but they are, by definition, right and good. He warns us that we are not to try to make the call for Him. We are told not to judge, lest we be judged. If we tell someone else that their life is not worthy, then ours will be judged unworthy. Will Catholics go to heaven because they followed the Church's teachings and confessed their sins, received Communion, and all the other Sacraments? I don't know. I hope so. I hope the Pope is speaking God's word and that Catholic teachings are inspired. Will people who live "good," but Godless, lives get into Heaven? I hope so, but I haven't seen anything purporting to be the Word of God that says so. But, I really hope so. Anyway, what I am saying is that some assume that God's plan for them is God's plan for everyone. I don't know that it is and I won't be so arrogant as to speak for Him. But, to those whom the message of the NT has been given, I strongly recommend that they take that ticket to Heaven. It's the only one I know of for sure. |
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| Post #10 Jan 14 2006, 01:33 PM |
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I just realized this thread was on here today! Wow! (Once I reply, I'll be kept informed of future posts via email.) Just for the record, I have been a Christian my entire life, but did fall away from any faith for a long time, and have found my current faith on my own. SNL, as you know, I believe we should use the Bible as a loose translation of the "rules". For everyone else, please allow me to expand on that. We all know how long ago it was written, how the books were written many, many years after the events happen - by humans (meaning there are going to be errors), how it was originally in Hebrew and has been translated a million times until it is what it is today, how the books were written separately, then later compiled in to scrolls, etc. [I saw a thing on the Discovery Channel ;) about the process the people used to compile the Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. Supposedly, there was one very long scroll, and four men standing side-by-side writing them down on the same scroll. Later, the scroll was broken down in to smaller pieces. This makes sense to me, because if you read a line of Matthew, then a line of Mark, then Luke, etc., they almost follow sequence. In other words, you can't take just one of them -- they were written together, and have to be read and interpreted as such.] The Bible also contains a lot of analogies that were relevant to the people of that time, but not today. (Like the sacrificing of animals -- one that just really gets me.) So, I think the Bible was written for the people OF THAT TIME, which leaves a LOT of room for interpretation now. And, that's why I don't think we should think of it as an absolute "rule book" for today. It's a good teaching tool, and great at general info you might need to know to be Jewish (old testament) or a Christian. But, again, I don't think it's an absolute. Has anyone ever read what it says about divorce? We'd all be going to Hell, because the women are supposed to never remarry, and the only reason a man can be divorced is if his wife was unfaithful to him. And, then, he can only marry his brother's widows or something. DON'T think that's meant for today. So, all of that to say, I don't think it's feasible to say that you would still go to hell tomorrow. Many of the verses contradict themselves, and there are also verses that say that all you have to do is ask for forgiveness of your sins, and they are wiped clean, as if they never happened. So, that doesn't make much sense. |
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| Post #11 Jan 14 2006, 01:53 PM | Son N Law |
The biggest problem I have with this is that history, archeology, and references within the late first-century church all absolutely contradict it. |
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| Post #12 Jan 14 2006, 02:01 PM | Kellyp |
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I'm not sure I believe God exists. I really haven't decided either way at this point but I am leaning towards the believe that there is no God. But if there is, it doesn't make any logical sense to me to condemn a good person who simply doesn't have faith. Not having faith doesn't make you a damned person, I believe. I think the Bible setting a clear criteria for heaven and salvation was just a really clever way to gain followers in the world religion competition. I think it should be enough to be a good person. I agree with most of the Ten Commandments. If there is a God, and there is heaven...well, if he doesn't want me there because I'm not sure he's out there I don't think I want to be in heaven. I don't believe in Hell because I don't believe in Satan. Again, I think hell and Satan are very smart ways to scare people into following. God knows it worked for me for a long time. I'm a good person. I don't cheat, steal, kill, commit adultery, beat old ladies with two by fours...it's enough for me. I'm sorry if it's not enough for God. |
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| Post #13 Jan 14 2006, 02:07 PM |
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What, exactly? |
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| Post #14 Jan 14 2006, 02:08 PM |
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| The most important point, though, is not whether you think God exists or not, but whether or not He does. I highly recommend finding out. |
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| Post #15 Jan 14 2006, 02:24 PM | Son N Law |
Well, for one thing, even amongst the most conservative Biblical scholars, there is a furious debate regarding which of the Gospels was written first, and which had the most influence on the others. It's generally accepted that 70 AD is the earliest that Matthew could have been written (although some to hold that it was written prior to the destruction of the Temple), and the most conservative estimate I've ever seen for John was 80 AD, with most scholars agreeing that it was written between 85 and 90 AD (with some holding to admittedly tentative evidence that it was written as late as 110 AD). The thing is, none of the scholars that I've read (no matter how devout) give even the slightest credence to the notion that they were written at the same time. |
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| Post #16 Jan 14 2006, 02:35 PM | Kellyp |
That's just the problem, though....I can't find out. I can't know. Nobody can know. I'm not big on faith just for that reason. Faith is not knowing, faith is believing and it's not the same thing. I'm just going to have to go to hell. I hope they have cable. |
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| Post #17 Jan 14 2006, 02:35 PM |
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| Oh, no, I'm sorry -- I didn't mean "written". I was talking about being compiled. But, that doesn't make much sense, either, does it? OK - shutting up now. |
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| Post #18 Jan 14 2006, 02:45 PM | Son N Law |
| No, no, definitely don't shut up. I've studied the Bible extensively, as a believer and as a non-believer, but that certainly doesn't mean I know all there is to know. Probably never will. So, please, continue to bring new ideas to the table. |
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| Post #19 Jan 14 2006, 02:46 PM |
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Those who have Faith know. Faith is another way of knowing. I know that God exists just as much as if He sat down and played cards with me. Don't play cards with God, though. He knows what you are holding! |
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| Post #20 Jan 14 2006, 02:48 PM |
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There're three words you don't usually see on a message board. You see the last two a lot, but not all three! |
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