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Does evil exist?
No 0 (0%)
Yes 18 (100%)
Total Votes: 18
Evil; Does it exist?
Topic Started: Jan 5 2006, 12:10 PM (1,118 Views)
Post #1 Jan 5 2006, 12:10 PM eye95
No fence-sitting. You have to pick your "best" answer. If you say "yes," what is evil? If you say no, why doesn't it exist. I will wait to give you my answer.
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Post #2 Jan 5 2006, 01:13 PM Son N Law
I'm going to say yes. Evil, in my mind, amounts to making a conscious decision that you know is going to cause other beings to suffer, no matter how much you think you can justify it. Or, at least, that's part of it.

If I may, allow me to draw examples from what many people see as the "ultimate act of evil," step back from it, try to examine it objectively from both sides, and defend my position that yes, this was evil, even if you fully understand the motivations of the transgressors. I'm going to dip into what sounds like traitorous territory, but please give me the benefit of the doubt; I'm simply trying to explore every point of view as best I know how.

After the attacks of September 11, 2001, some people tried to claim that we Americans brought it on ourselves by meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, changing allegiances, helping to bring the Taliban into power to combat Russia, refusing to burn lesbians at the stake, what have you. And you know what? I can kind of see that (well, not the lesbians part). I do believe American actions in the past caused the terrorists to be angry with our government, and perhaps seek retribution against an injustice, whether that injustice was intentional or not (and I don't think it was intentional). But did we bring that on ourselves? I absolutely do not and cannot agree, nor do I have much patience for those who feel that way. I can't see how anyone could feel that we as a nation, or the people who jumped to their death to avoid burning, or the families who lost loved ones, deserved what happened.

The terrorists made a decision -- a choice -- to murder people who had never done anything to them in order to get back at the government who had hurt them (or, if you don't feel that our government did hurt them, no matter how unintentionally, the government they perceived to have hurt them).

Moreover, some people celebrated as innocents -- ironically enough, some of whom were undoubtedly Middle Eastern and/or Muslim -- died an unimaginable, torturous death. Try as you might to understand such actions and attitudes, any moral philosophy that claims to defend something like that is just as guilty of evil. Rejoicing an evil act also amounts to evil, in my book.

I don't think evil is a neat, tidy package. I don't believe in black and white. Barring insanity, I do believe there is some stimulus behind every evil act, whether it's a matter of upbringing or external influence. But we're all faced with hardships -- some of us more so than others -- and we have to make choices. And we all make justifications for our moral wrongdoings (and just as a matter of clarification, I don't think all moral wrongs are evil), but when you selfishly and intentionally cause suffering, no matter how much you think it's the right thing to do, that's one example of evil.

I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop now before I write a tome. :D
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Post #3 Jan 5 2006, 06:39 PM eye95
Anyone else?
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Post #4 Jan 5 2006, 10:46 PM Son N Law
*nudge Eye95*

I think you're gonna have to kickstart this one, Papa Bear.
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Post #5 Jan 6 2006, 11:40 AM cboykin
I might have SNL fainting again with my lame answers, but I have to say yes, too. I strongly believe in yin-yang. There's evil, so there is good. Without one, you don't have the other. The definition of evil? Choosing to do a wrong to someone/something for either purely personal gain or just because it seems like something to do -- without regard to consequence (or conscience). As one of 3 daughters, I never was around boys much, but since having a son, I've been stuff that absolutely amazes me. Boys will sit around and burn ants, for example, just to see what will happen. People commit acts similar, but on a larger scale for the same reason. I think that's evil.
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Post #6 Jan 6 2006, 11:48 AM Son N Law
Nah, there's nothing to faint about there, silly butt.

I think it's interesting that you and I both see evil as a choice, but that you also perceive it as something separate from choice: that evil can be something detached from the decisions that people make (unless I totally misinterpreted your use of "yin-yang"). I wouldn't mind discussing that more.
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Post #7 Jan 6 2006, 12:03 PM cboykin
Well, for the most part, it is choice. But, I also believe that the absence of good is the equivalent of evil. There are people who have no sense of "good" and only set out to inflict pain on others. Severe psychopaths act without regard to any consequence. They have no conscience. Therefore, for them, I don't know if it's a choice -- because they don't have "good" to balance the equation. Make sense? (Didn't get much sleep last night & had a breakdown about my grandmother -- again.)
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Post #8 Jan 6 2006, 12:39 PM Son N Law
I think that begs the question, then: "What is good?"
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Post #9 Jan 6 2006, 12:41 PM thevoice
Son N Law
Jan 6 2006, 11:39 AM
I think that begs the question, then: "What is good?"

Evil will always triumph, because Good is Dumb!!!!
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Post #10 Jan 6 2006, 02:41 PM Son N Law
thevoice
Jan 6 2006, 11:41 AM
Evil will always triumph, because Good is Dumb!!!!

I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!
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Post #11 Jan 6 2006, 02:44 PM thevoice
Son N Law
Jan 6 2006, 01:41 PM
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!

I HATE it when I get my Schwartz twisted!!!! :angry:
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Post #12 Jan 6 2006, 03:03 PM Son N Law
So, what do you think, Voice? Evil? Yes, no, maybe?
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Post #13 Jan 6 2006, 03:15 PM thevoice
Son N Law
Jan 6 2006, 02:03 PM
So, what do you think, Voice? Evil? Yes, no, maybe?

Absolutely yes, I believe evil exists...

I also believe that, in many cases, it's entirely a matter of perception, though to me there are certainly very clear-cut cases of evil...
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Post #14 Jan 6 2006, 05:28 PM eye95
I agree that evil is a choice. I think this story illustrates exactly what I think evil is.

Two disclaimers: (1) This story is not true. As a matter of fact, though I have seen it other places, I copied it here from snopes.com, who debunked it. However, it is still an excellent allegory. (2) Even if you do not believe in God, this story gives you a good definition of evil: deliberately turning away from that which is good.

Without further ado, here is that bit of "historical fiction."

snopes.com
 
Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name — Albert Einstein.


snopes.com link
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Post #15 Jan 7 2006, 01:19 PM cboykin
Hey, thanks, Eye! That's a great illustration of what I was saying. Evil is the absence of good. :)
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Post #16 Jan 10 2006, 07:45 PM metzol
Hmmm, what's wors a psycopath or a sociopath? A psycopath is someone who does not know the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference, but chooses to do wrong.
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Post #17 Jan 10 2006, 08:28 PM eye95
Psychopath. At least he is using a fair coin: evil on one side, good on the other. The sociopath comes up evil every time.
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Post #18 Jan 11 2006, 05:14 PM Civil Lized
metzol
Jan 10 2006, 06:45 PM
Hmmm, what's wors a psycopath or a sociopath? A psycopath is someone who does not know the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference, but chooses to do wrong.

How do you know that they don't know the difference between right and wrong? Are you one? lol jk :lol: ;)
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Post #19 Jan 12 2006, 02:55 AM metzol
Civil Lized
Jan 11 2006, 04:14 PM
Are you one?

I don't know. :ph43r:
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Post #20 Jan 30 2007, 08:29 PM gentry
I believe evil exists.

But I do not think there is any such thing as "the absence of God", as if He were not present and sovereign in all things.

Evil is a real tangible thing - but it is also not a duality. Not yin and yang. That implies that evil is an equal of good, and I do not believe that is the case. Whether or not it knows it, and often in spite of itself, it always serves the good, ultimately. Not to say that we always know or can say how.
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